After Sexual Trauma with Camille Cates | SFT: Episode 10

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Justin Daugherty: You're listening to Scripture For Today, a podcast of Hope Counseling and Discipleship Center. I'm your host, Justin Daugherty, and today, I have with me Camille Cates to talk about her new book "After Sexual Trauma." Camille is a biblical counselor and a public speaker with a passion for ministering to women in crisis. She has written and spoken extensively on the topics of pregnancy care ministry, post-abortion trauma counseling, God's design for sex and sexuality and sexual abuse. She is the author of Moving Forward After Abortion and the mini book Pregnancy Crisis. Camille and her husband Troy have three adult children and reside in Cincinnati, Ohio. Welcome to the podcast, Camille.

Camille Cates: Justin, thanks for having me on.

Justin Daugherty: It's great to have you on this topic after sexual trauma. It's certainly a sensitive topic to talk about, but there's definitely work in this area that is just so needed. I just want to ask before we start, what compelled you to write on this topic?

Camille Cates: Well, I've been working and counseling and counseling with women for over 30 years now and just knowing that there's great books on the topic out there, but typically those books are written for somebody who's trying to learn more about the topic and maybe even how to minister to someone who's experienced sexual abuse, whereas this is written for someone who's experienced sexual trauma, from abuse or assault or other forms of damage. And so, I really wanted something just short and simple that could be put in somebody's hands. They could read it and have some of the deepest questions that they have after an experience like that with the answers from God's Word and seeing different things like biblical narratives and even biblical law.

God has a lot to say on this topic, but a lot of times those things are obscured. We don't see those, you don't hear sermons preached on this topic often. so, you know, people who have suffered from sexual trauma are just left wrestling with all of these questions and not really knowing where to go or having a good, like I said, short and simple tool in their hands, because this is a tough topic and it really needs to be worked through slowly and sometimes you can't go really deep very quickly with someone.

And I was thinking about, you know, the origin of this. I've probably had this idea in my heart for over a decade now. And really it came from sitting down and, know, I've talked with a lot of women, I counsel on a lot of different topics. Sexual abuse is something that has come in to the counseling room while we're dealing with other things. But I remember sitting down with one young woman in particular, and I didn't have any other resource to grab. mean, God's Word, the Bible, but as counselors or as Christian friends walking alongside somebody, you don't always know where to go in Scripture. So that's why I wrote this book. It's really important, near and dear to my heart.

Justin Daugherty: Yeah. And there's so many, just practical little helpful things in this book almost can be used as a template to talk to people about who, who have suffered. So it's, it's certainly very practical in the, in the book, you talk about the issue of self blame when it comes to sexual assault and you mentioned this notion of false guilt on page 12, you write this, you say, accepting that you didn't cause your assault will help to lift the burden of false guilt and allow you to embrace God's comfort and healing. Can you talk about the prevalence of false guilt? Like how often do you see that and just the prevalence of false guilt and why it's crucial to correct that line of thinking, that false line of thinking.

Camille Cates: Yeah, absolutely. So I would say it's very prevalent when you think about the question, was it my fault? That's one of the questions in the book as a chapter. And, you know, when you really know and understand who our enemy is, that we have an enemy to our soul, Satan, and he is a schemer, and he is a deceiver, and he's also what the Bible calls an accuser. So it doesn't, you know, really take much to consider that he is going to accuse falsely those who have been wounded by sexual trauma. it's conversely, it's interesting when you look at perpetrators and those who have committed the sin against other people, they often don't have any guilt. You know, Satan almost works out like, hey, I'm going to accuse the non-guilty and excuse the guilty. And so really it's important for victims and survivors to understand that they're falsely bearing this guilt that the enemy wants to destroy them with and keep them in their pain and in their shame. And so it's really crucial to correct because the truth is how we're sanctified. John 17:17 says, sanctify them by the truth, your word is truth. And sanctification goes along with healing. That's how we're healed. So we really, it's important to know the truth about what happened to you, who's really at fault and where the guilt is to then begin to process right thinking and right feelings according to God's Word and what He says about the situation.

Justin Daugherty: I assume that that can take a bit of time to kind of rework those, those, you know, patterns of false thinking and false guilt. And, it might take time for the mind to be renewed. you have this section in the book on, renewing your mind and the importance of renewing the mind. Love this quote that you say on pages 54 and 55, you say, "holding extreme views about your body after enduring abuse, whether seeing it as an object to be displayed, a source of shame or something to be punished, saddens God and dishonors his image in you. To be created in God's image means that your body has inherent value and dignity, regardless of what you've experienced. Embracing this foundational truth will allow you to renew your understanding of the body, shifting from self-loathing to healthy stewardship of it." And so embracing this biblical view of oneself leads to healing, which is what you talk about. What are some practical ways that someone can begin the process of having a renewed mind about themselves and about their body?

Camille Cates: Yeah, well, first thing I want to say is I want the listener and the reader to be careful here because we just talked about false guilt. When I make this statement, God is saddened when we have this view of ourselves that could unintentionally heap on more shame. We don't want to do that. So I hope that the reader and the listener will really understand that we are, as we're moving away from false guilt and embracing the truth of what God says about you, there's freedom in that. And that's why it saddens him. He doesn't want to shame you or make you feel like you've done anything else wrong in how you view your body. Unfortunately, because we live in this fallen world, that is a result sometimes of how we can view our bodies.

So God wants us to have right thinking so that we can live rightly and live in freedom. So part of that happens through meditating on Scripture. And some of the practical ways to do that, we don't mention that, I don't mention this in the book, but some practical ways to do that is meditating on the attributes of God. In counseling, I think it's foundational to any kind of biblical counseling. We have to know who God is. He is our creator. He is the one who made us and knows us. And so if we don't really understand who He is, that we don't understand who we are properly. So really beginning to meditate on some attributes, you know, even something as simple as God is love. What does that mean? If God is love, if He is the source of love and He created us to be in relationship to Him, then we're the recipients of that love.

So looking at His Word, how it tells us that He's loved, how it tells us and shows us how He's loved His people, and then being able to receive that for yourself. Like I am a recipient of God's love and that even is rooted in the gospel that God demonstrated this love for us that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. We have to understand that that's an act of God's love and I'm a recipient of that. There's other things that, you know, God is peace, God is gentle. You know, when you begin to understand those things, we start seeing ourselves in right relationship with Him. And so once that inner man, the inner self begins to be renewed according to God's Word and who He is and who He says we are, then we automatically begin seeing ourselves the way that God does with inherent worth and value. And so then we want to take care of our bodies, right? Because we're embodied souls. So as our soul is being renewed, looking at who our God is, then we will want to live in such a way to take care of our body and steward it well for His glory.

Justin Daugherty: It's so helpful. going to transition and talk about this. On page 78, you tell us about this horrific situation with your daughter. And I want to give you the opportunity, if you feel comfortable, would you mind sharing just a little bit about this situation and how it left you feeling like you just wanted to execute justice?

Camille Cates: Sure. You're talking about 7, "Will Justice Be Done?" And I share a bit of my story in the book where I have a daughter. I had a crisis pregnancy and I had a daughter outside of marriage and I ended up having a relationship with another man later on and he ended up sexually assaulting and shaking my daughter to death. And so just enduring the trauma of what happened to her and feeling angry over what he had done. You know, I share in the book, really, my initial thoughts and feelings were, just give me five minutes and a baseball bat alone and a cuff him, you know, keep him still and let me just exact out all my

vengeance, get all of my emotion, my anger out. Let me take out on him the way that he hurt my daughter. And so there's this place of anger that rises up in us. And I think sometimes we neglect that we can have righteous anger. we can be angry over the same things that God is angry over, sin. We can respond in that anger unrighteously, right? And that's an example of, you know, wanting to take my own vengeance out on Him.

You know, really when you look at Scripture, Romans 12:19, He tells us not to take our own vengeance. To leave that up to Him that God's anger, His own righteous anger will take care of things. And we're actually exhorted in scripture, James 1:20 came to mind, that man's anger does not accomplish the righteousness of God. We can have an emotion such as righteous anger, like God has him be angry over sin, but He alone can deal appropriately.

with that sin to the fullest measure. And so he alone can exact justice. One other thing that I wanted to share about that, just a little bit below that in the book, I go over Proverbs 24, 17 and 18. And Justin, this is just me. You some people really struggle with false guilt like I talked about. You know, I was a bit of a rebel. And so I didn't, I need these kind of warnings in Scripture.

And so maybe the reader, is in that place too where they need to understand that God's Word says we can't take out our own vengeance if we're angry and I think it says that we're rejoicing or exulting over the fall of our enemy, that God actually turns His anger away. God knows that our anger is not perfect, but His is, and He's told His children that He will take care of it. And we need to trust Him in that. Again, like we've been talking about that, it can be a long and slow and really thought out process as God is renewing your heart and mind about what He says about letting Him take care of things and not taking vengeance into our own hands. So I talk about that a little bit in the book as far as earthly justice and how God operates with His attribute of justice. He is just.

Justin Daugherty: Yeah. And as, as hard as it is in a, in a situation like, like you had, or, you know, a different situation, as hard as it is to think through, not retaliating, you know, again, scripture gives us almost the model with Christ and that he, even though he was reviled, he didn't revile back, right. But he entrusted himself to the Lord, to God who judges justly. And so I think that's our model, even though, like you said, the righteous anger is there, almost the fury that you feel is there, but we can rest knowing that the Lord will execute perfect justice and that actually frees us up to love, right? Even in such a difficult situation like this.

Camille Cates: And that does not mean that just because we're entrusting God with vengeance that we don't report to the police. We should. We do, right? Romans 13 tells us about God has given us these earthly authorities and He uses them as tools. And so, if somebody's a victim or survivor of abuse and they want to report, they're an adult. Let's clarify there, if it's a child, it needs to be reported, it's mandated. If they're an adult and they want to report and seek that earthly justice, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, there's everything right with that. Now, that being said, that can be a very cumbersome, difficult process. And I would encourage anybody who wants to seek that route to have a lot of support, the support of your church, pastors, female advocates, male advocates, if you're a male, to walk that road with you and to really do some of your homework so that you don't go into it blindly, right? That you know what the hardships of that process might look like. But in no way should we neglect seeking earthly justice just because we're also entrusting vengeance to the Lord. It's both, right?

Justin Daugherty: Even though we're trusting it to the Lord, we should still be active in trying to make the wrongs right even here on earth. So thank you for that clarification. That's really helpful.

Camille Cates: Yeah, and I do share some of that in that chapter as well about going through the court system and going through a trial. So I just think that that's helpful. Not many of us have sat in. I was a witness to a capital murder trial. There's things that God showed me along the way and taught me. that might be helpful to read for somebody who's even thinking about going through that process of the court system.

Justin Daugherty: Really practical and helpful. Last question here. How does the gospel of Jesus Christ provide hope for someone who has experienced sexual assault?

Camille Cates: Well, it provides so much hope. Before I kind of lay it out in my mind how I think through that, I want to again kind of give a little bit of a caution, especially for counselors that are working with somebody who's experienced abuse is sometimes we want to jump right to forgiveness. I remember being in my mid-20s. So not far along after that had happened with my daughter and a friend who was a counselor at a church had something similar happen to a congregant, and he asked me to meet with her. And I did, just because God had done this great work in my heart and brought me to the place where I was obedient to forgive him, you know, kind of forgetting all the long road of work that he had done up until that point when I sat down with her. That's really kind of what I zeroed in on, and it wasn't helpful because it had just happened, it was fresh for her, and she needed to process through all of that. She needed to know it was okay to be angry about what had happened to her and to meet God and His attributes and then kind of walk through that process from there.

So I would caution anybody working with an abuse victim or survivor to not jump to forgiveness as the first part of the gospel because it's not. The first part is sin. know, and so the gospel, what hope the gospel has to offer us is that sin is going to be dealt with justly. Our sin and the sin that's done against us. And so we got to start with sin and that good news that God deals with sin. And then there's the hope of renewal and healing that's offered us through

through the gospel so because God is just, because he dealt with sin in Christ on the cross and Christ is resurrected, then we have this power available to us through the gospel for renewal and redemption. Things don't have to stay broken. God wants to make things new and make them right. So there's that hope. And then, you know, there's the hope of

the gospel showing us not only that God forgives us, but God's forgiveness of us empowers us to forgive others. That's why He commands it. You know, we are to forgive as we have been forgiven. And like I said, that can be a really hard, sometimes long process.

I would encourage you, you know, if you're really struggling, especially if it's been years since abuse has happened and you're really still struggling with forgiveness, to work through that. In the book, I talk about cultivatin

g compassion for our offenders. I feel like that's key. If we don't have mercy for our offenders, we're not going to want to forgive. And the only way to do that is to know that we're recipients of that mercy. Again, it kind of goes back to God's attributes, right? If He is merciful God, we are the recipients of that mercy and God wants us to give that mercy to others. So it makes me think about the beatitude that says, blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy. Like I have received mercy for my sins. I talked about my abortion in the book briefly. And I think God really used that to help me to forgive my daughter's offender. Without knowing the depths of my own sin and how great God's love and forgiveness to me extended through the cross of Christ, I would not want to extend that to Him. But because of that and because I really know the depths of what that means, I want to extend that forgiveness and that mercy.

But God has got to do that work and then we have to want to be obedient. So if you're struggling with that, I want to encourage you right now just to even pray this simple prayer. God, I don't want to forgive blank. Will you help me want to? Will you help me want to be obedient? Because that's where we find freedom is in the hope of the gospel.

Justin Daugherty: Amen. Such a powerful testimony, Camille. Camille's new book, "After Sexual Trauma", is out now. You can go and grab a copy on Amazon. Camille, thank you so much for your testimony, for your transparency. You know, I'll probably never know exactly how the Lord will use this book, but I'm confident that he will for his glory and for other people's good. So thank you for writing this.

Camille Cates:

Thank you, Justin. My pleasure to be with you.